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So I was reading an article by Scot Nicol (the guy from Ibis) talking about materials for frame design, based mostly on lightweight road/xc bikes, but the info was applicable to any bike design. It got me thinking about Ti as a frame material.
Basically I imagined a frame of equal tubing diameter and thickness to my steel frame. It would be 56% the weight, but the wall thickness would be to thin to be practical (it could fold, and it wouldn't be a very stiff frame). If one was to make a frame that weighed the same with thicker walls and roughly equal tubing diameter it would be stiffer and stronger. It's too bad that Ti is so expensive to work with 'cause it seems to me you could engineer a frame to have some very nice weight/stiffness/strength properties. Personally I wouldn't mind a frame that was stiffer than my steel one, equal or slightly stronger, and marginally lighter. That would be cool - a super beef 5lb frame.
I guess Taj has been fooling around with a Ti Terrible1 - along with a seapost free frame for garret byrnes. The seat tube just extends a couple extra inches and BMX post guts are welded straight to it. No height adjustment but you can still change the angle.
--Sam B
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:56 am
Buetang
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I've thought about that too, at a DS race up in Ellijay GA; LightSpeed acctually had a DS frame...two of them. they where proto's, the lightspeed guys said they'd never go into production cause the weighed the same as steel at twice the price tag. The proto's cost them over 10K to make. they where sweet though. Ti frame with sloted drops and oversized tubing. the weight was about the same as my Spooky MetalHead. I got to take one for a spin...it was NICE.
God...that was like 4 years ago. No tellin what happend to those frames.
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 2:58 pm
Peter
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Location: Dänmark
Redline make a BMX race-frame in titanium... I could imagine that it could have potential, but the price (as you mention) is out of hands, for most...
i think Planet X is making a run of the new Jack Flash frame in Ti.
i know part of the appeal of ti to the weight weenies and roadies is the slight flex of ti (in addition to the weight) seems like this would be way undesirable in a street frame
but i think you're onto something with the beefy ti thing -- i'll keep my eyes out for the ti T1, they are here in town
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 3:34 pm
OldDickDynamite
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hey check this article out:
http://www.merlinbike.com/english/technology/ti_primer.html
page after page of interesting stuff on Ti
one intersting note is that increasing tube outer diameter increases stiffness much more that wall thickness does.. so with an oversized tubing; you could still probably save some weight and get a much stiffer frame
as far as ceramics; Specialized has made frames from a mmc before (that's meta matrix composite) but it seems like there is a way to go before such technology offers enough benefits relative to cost to be more useful for bikes you beat the shit out of.
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 6:18 pm
M.W.
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I think the main issue is $$$... That's a lot of money to put into something that you're gonna be potentially grinding through the chainstays, etc.
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 6:27 pm
thatoneguy
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M.W. wrote:
I think the main issue is $$$... That's a lot of money to put into something that you're gonna be potentially grinding through the chainstays, etc.
Good point. I think that PX's Ti frame is pretty reasonable, but would be better for off road portions. Either way. steel of Ti, your grinding your frame. I think PX had the right idea putting mounts on the DT and BB to mount a bash plate, could help the wear on the frame...
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:14 pm
sinister
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how about clay for a frame material? that seems nice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2002 11:08 pm
Sam B
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M.W. wrote:
I think the main issue is $$$... That's a lot of money to put into something that you're gonna be potentially grinding through the chainstays, etc.
I was mostly thinking about an ultimate frame. Money is the ONLY issue with Ti (well contamination too but...).
About the diameter having a greater effect on stiffness... That is %100 true. That, combined with the thicker walls is what makes Aluminum frames <generally> stiffer than steel frames. More material can be used due to lower density, which allows larger tubes (for stiffness) with adequately thick walls (to maintain strength when the tubes get big). Aluminum is a more flexible material than steel for a given cross section. With Ti you could make a frame somewhere inbetween steel and aluminum in tubing thickness/diameter and get really good frame stiffness, with high strength and non of that scary fatigue life stuff you get with Aluminum.
Ultimately, steel is real. But Ti is cool...
--Sam B
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:46 am
Style
495mtbcrew
Joined: Sep 7, 2002
Posts: 6734
Location: Foxboro Ma
i think that a smart move, would ne to make frame guards. similar in function to a bash guard, only in a tubular shape. You could slip it over your chain stays, or bolt it on, whatever, and you could grind on that, and replace a $50 plate instead of a $600 frame, just thinking of it tho.
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 2:05 am
M.W.
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Sam B wrote:
M.W. wrote:
I think the main issue is $$$... That's a lot of money to put into something that you're gonna be potentially grinding through the chainstays, etc.
I was mostly thinking about an ultimate frame. Money is the ONLY issue with Ti (well contamination too but...).
Yeah, I was meaning more about doing it as production.
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Peter says:
it was a really fun session/jam/gathering
Peter says:
even though I was the only one in bright clothes
Peter says: vinyl is the best thing since underpants
Peter says: My name isn't p-diddy grau-dub you ass
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 2:19 am
txfreerider
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Posts: 183
Location: austin, TEXAS
hey dirtydick, some of the ozone guys are riding the scandium explosifs for street and dj.
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 3:19 am
gravity
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i wanna make a uranium frame, just so i can sell it to Sodom Insane and let him build nuclear bombs with it
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 9:47 am
OldDickDynamite
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txfreerider wrote:
hey dirtydick, some of the ozone guys are riding the scandium explosifs for street and dj.
i thought scandium was super brittle -- last i heard, no frame mfg would warranty it over a year... i may be wrong though. i know its strength to weight ratio is badass but i had thought durability was a problem
anybody know anything about some of the high end steel tubing, like OX Platinum? i know Standard uses it for some of their bikes....
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 2:17 pm
Sam B
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Location: Bellingham, WA
OldDickDynamite wrote:
txfreerider wrote:
hey dirtydick, some of the ozone guys are riding the scandium explosifs for street and dj.
i thought scandium was super brittle -- last i heard, no frame mfg would warranty it over a year... i may be wrong though. i know its strength to weight ratio is badass but i had thought durability was a problem
anybody know anything about some of the high end steel tubing, like OX Platinum? i know Standard uses it for some of their bikes....
Apparently Reynolds 853 isn't availale in large enough/thick enough tubing for street aplications. It seems that OX Platinum must be since standard is using it on the Bullit, and R models. I've never checked on that before.
yeah fatigue life is a big thing to worry about... scandium probably blows in that department. Anybody remember Aermet?
--Sam B
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2002 2:22 pm
Peter
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Joined: Sep 6, 2002
Posts: 2975
Location: Dänmark
While we're on the subject of materials... I was browsing through the Redline catalog, and noticed that they use a lot of different steels.
Top of the line uses 4130.
Then there is "quadmoly" and "trimoly".
And then "high tensile steel".
Does anyone know what "quadmoly" and "trimoly" are?
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